MX-5 OC Forum

Comment removed by Mr Chrome......

Mr Chrome's method is the only way that PMs can in any way be viewed by us. 

It would return a load of unformatted data, and it wouldn't be laid out in a pretty thread for easy reading. If I wanted to read PMs I would probably need to write a program to display them because it would just be impractical otherwise.

I can assure you all that I have a life. And right now it's very busy. Even if I had some crazy desire to snoop on what others are saying I simply would not have the time to do it!

Let me explain the reason behind that rule.

It's not uncommon for people to have disagreements on forums, and sometimes things get out of hand and people can become very abusive and sometimes even threatening. If that happens on a public thread we can see it and take action. But if it happens in a private message we can't see it. If somebody complains then what can we do? Ignore it? Take their word?

Let's say a spammer gets on the forum and Wayne, Taff, Mr Chrome, whoever, all start to get 3,000 spam messages a day trying to sell them some sort of medication. What can we do about that if we have no evidence of it? Do we start banning people on the words of others? What if somebody accuses Wayne of sending spam messages? Do we just ban him without actually seeing anything ourselves?

What happens if Wayne PMs me tomorrow accusing a mod of threatening to slash his tyres and shoot his dog if he mentions PMs being viewable by others, and Wayne is genuinely concerned about losing £1000 worth of rubber and his dog, 3 weeks before Xmas?

What if that mod routinely makes such threats and most people have just run off scared? 

The concern I have is quite simple.

Everyone in denial seems to be saying that it is extremely difficult to view members PM's.

Well, Im not too sure of that. Ok, so I do not know the community server software very well, but I have ran numerous forums over the years of one description or another.

Wether they have been based on PHBB3 or Nuke Evolution or others I have touched on for testing, each one has an interface for Administrators to log in as an admin. From here (dependant on level of administration status) it is just a simple case of clicking on a link to view Private Messages. You do not need to hack into SQL databases as is being inferred. Yes, you coudl do it that way quite simply if you have access to the server that stores the database. Most web hoting companies provide you with a MYSQL interface to do exactly that. It doesnt take much poking round to find what you are looking for.

I would have been quiite happy to accept hearing moderators saying they havent read pm's until I read comments saying it is extremely difficult.....

Bluenoes:

The concern I have is quite simple.

Everyone in denial seems to be saying that it is extremely difficult to view members PM's.

Well, Im not too sure of that. Ok, so I do not know the community server software very well, but I have ran numerous forums over the years of one description or another.

Wether they have been based on PHBB3 or Nuke Evolution or others I have touched on for testing, each one has an interface for Administrators to log in as an admin. From here (dependant on level of administration status) it is just a simple case of clicking on a link to view Private Messages. You do not need to hack into SQL databases as is being inferred. Yes, you coudl do it that way quite simply if you have access to the server that stores the database. Most web hoting companies provide you with a MYSQL interface to do exactly that. It doesnt take much poking round to find what you are looking for.

I would have been quiite happy to accept hearing moderators saying they havent read pm's until I read comments saying it is extremely difficult.....

Bluenoes:

each one has an interface for Administrators to log in as an admin. From here (dependant on level of administration status) it is just a simple case of clicking on a link to view Private Messages.

Andy, I have just spent 20 mins looking at the options available to me as an administrator, and I can assure you that I have no access to Personel Mesages. Believe me if you want to or call me a liar.......your choice

I don't know how I can make this clearer:

There is no way to view PMs through any sort of UI on the forum. The forum software does not allow mods to view PMs. The forum software does not allow admin to view PMs. The forum software does not allow me to view PMs. It is not possible through the forum software for any individual to view a PM that was not sent by them, or from them.

To summarise, the forum software does not allow us to view your PMs. Or, to put it another way, we cannot view your PMs through the forum sofware.

The only way that we can view a member's PMs is through the database itself. To put it another way, yes - it is possible for us to view PMs through the database. 
I believe only 2 people in the entire club have access to the forum database. I am one of them and Martin is the other - all due respect to Martin, but he wouldn't know where to start (he'd say that himself). Therefore I am the only person in the club capable of viewing your PMs.

Is it difficult to view a private message? In the overall scheme of things, no. I'm a software Engineer - extracting a bit of data from a database is not difficult. Could Joe Blogs do it? No.

Is it a massive faff to read a thread? Yes. Is it an even bigger faff to just browse messages? Yes.

Am I so nosey and disrespectful that I want to spend the little free time that I have just now snooping in on private conversations? No, and I'm almost offended that people think that I would be.
The only time that I will care is if I have reason to investigate a serious complaint as explained above.

I don't think that there is any more that I can say or do to put your minds at ease other than possibly this thread - http://telligent.com/support/communityserver/community_server_2007/f/165/p/1058274/1327120.aspx

Well said Ramsay

I'm not bothered if the Mods can read PMs.  If I have any sensitive/controversial/hairdressing info to send, I don't do it via a public forum PM. 

[I assume none of the Mods work for News International?! ]

Geoff, I was not calling you a liar.

I was just pointing out the fact that most forum software I have encountered has had the option of viewing PM's. I am very surprised that this one has not got the option.

I just popped along to give some input based on my experience  

01mx5:

I don't know how I can make this clearer:

There is no way to view PMs through any sort of UI on the forum. The forum software does not allow mods to view PMs. The forum software does not allow admin to view PMs. The forum software does not allow me to view PMs. It is not possible through the forum software for any individual to view a PM that was not sent by them, or from them.

To summarise, the forum software does not allow us to view your PMs. Or, to put it another way, we cannot view your PMs through the forum sofware.

 

I don't think that there is any more that I can say or do to put your minds at ease other than possibly this thread - http://telligent.com/support/communityserver/community_server_2007/f/165/p/1058274/1327120.aspx

Ramsay, thats cleared it up for me and I can accept what you are saying.

What is the name of this forum software?

With most forum software, some coder will have written an unofficial add-on to view PMs in a GUI. Of course you would have to choose to install it and use it - and it also would be highly unlikely to increment the "read by" count.

I would like to make just one observation on this subject of the privacy of PM's. I am not a computer expert, but from what I read and and hear via the media I believe it is not impossible for forums and the like to be used for the transmission of messages that are not only illegal but also, in some cases, highly undesirable. I'm not sure if non Club Members (who may, or may not,  be untraceable) have the facility to use the Private Messaging system, but given that they were I can see that it would not be impossible for a forum such as this to be used for purposes far removed those intended.

Not for one minute am I suggesting or implying that any member of this forum would abuse it in such a way; my thoughts are that at least one Moderator should have the privilege of being able to read PM's should it become necessary in order to protect not only the integrity of the forum of a highly respected Owners' Club, but also all members of the forum.

TerryM:

I would like to make just one observation on this subject of the privacy of PM's. I am not a computer expert, but from what I read and and hear via the media I believe it is not impossible for forums and the like to be used for the transmission of messages that are not only illegal but also, in some cases, highly undesirable. I'm not sure if non Club Members (who may, or may not,  be untraceable) have the facility to use the Private Messaging system, but given that they were I can see that it would not be impossible for a forum such as this to be used for purposes far removed those intended.

Not for one minute am I suggesting or implying that any member of this forum would abuse it in such a way; my thoughts are that at least one Moderator should have the privilege of being able to read PM's should it become necessary in order to protect not only the integrity of the forum of a highly respected Owners' Club, but also all members of the forum.

I think thats where the "etc" comes in. I suppose there may be a possibility, however remote, that some appropriate forum authority, may have to respond to a request from a third party, which might include the police. Someone else might have a better knowledge of what warrants etc are required. I have seen on another MX5 forum, past disputes that have actually threatened to bring in solicitors, so who knows what might happen. A lot of the forum membership do not complete their registration details with a name etc. And the name could be made up. So people are essentially untraceable, as far as I can see.

I really hope, and I expect this to be totally unecessary. I hope by including such wording, some sort of deterrance can be made to the types of low lifes who might be involved in that sort of thing (illegal stuff; transmission of illegal images, swapping of stolen financial data etc).

AT:

TerryM:

I would like to make just one observation on this subject of the privacy of PM's. I am not a computer expert, but from what I read and and hear via the media I believe it is not impossible for forums and the like to be used for the transmission of messages that are not only illegal but also, in some cases, highly undesirable. I'm not sure if non Club Members (who may, or may not,  be untraceable) have the facility to use the Private Messaging system, but given that they were I can see that it would not be impossible for a forum such as this to be used for purposes far removed those intended.

Not for one minute am I suggesting or implying that any member of this forum would abuse it in such a way; my thoughts are that at least one Moderator should have the privilege of being able to read PM's should it become necessary in order to protect not only the integrity of the forum of a highly respected Owners' Club, but also all members of the forum.

I think thats where the "etc" comes in. I suppose there may be a possibility, however remote, that some appropriate forum authority, may have to respond to a request from a third party, which might include the police. Someone else might have a better knowledge of what warrants etc are required. I have seen on another MX5 forum, past disputes that have actually threatened to bring in solicitors, so who knows what might happen. A lot of the forum membership do not complete their registration details with a name etc. And the name could be made up. So people are essentially untraceable, as far as I can see.

I really hope, and I expect this to be totally unecessary. I hope by including such wording, some sort of deterrance can be made to the types of low lifes who might be involved in that sort of thing (illegal stuff; transmission of illegal images, swapping of stolen financial data etc).

To be honest, that reasoning was behind me questioning why the forum software does not have the ability for the forums to enable admins to view PM's......

Bluenoes:

AT:

TerryM:

I would like to make just one observation on this subject of the privacy of PM's. I am not a computer expert, but from what I read and and hear via the media I believe it is not impossible for forums and the like to be used for the transmission of messages that are not only illegal but also, in some cases, highly undesirable. I'm not sure if non Club Members (who may, or may not,  be untraceable) have the facility to use the Private Messaging system, but given that they were I can see that it would not be impossible for a forum such as this to be used for purposes far removed those intended.

Not for one minute am I suggesting or implying that any member of this forum would abuse it in such a way; my thoughts are that at least one Moderator should have the privilege of being able to read PM's should it become necessary in order to protect not only the integrity of the forum of a highly respected Owners' Club, but also all members of the forum.

I think thats where the "etc" comes in. I suppose there may be a possibility, however remote, that some appropriate forum authority, may have to respond to a request from a third party, which might include the police. Someone else might have a better knowledge of what warrants etc are required. I have seen on another MX5 forum, past disputes that have actually threatened to bring in solicitors, so who knows what might happen. A lot of the forum membership do not complete their registration details with a name etc. And the name could be made up. So people are essentially untraceable, as far as I can see.

I really hope, and I expect this to be totally unecessary. I hope by including such wording, some sort of deterrance can be made to the types of low lifes who might be involved in that sort of thing (illegal stuff; transmission of illegal images, swapping of stolen financial data etc).

 

 

 

 

To be honest, that reasoning was behind me questioning why the forum software does not have the ability for the forums to enable admins to view PM's......

But then you are talking about legal issues.

M-m