MX-5 OC Forum

Hi,

Just had gear and diff oil changed in latest service.

Two pieces of metal found attached to diff magnetic drain plug

Here is a pic of the "bits" they are around 15mm x 9mm in size.

No noise or worrying sounds from the diff.

Vehicle has 36500mls on the clock and is as my .sig

Has anyone any idea what they may be?

Martin

[edit] AhHa!! Just found this thread http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/14186.aspx and those are the bits....... well, we'll just keep rolling on then [/edit]

thats crazy lol would worry me but from the thread seems ok

charlie

Lets hope nothing blows on the parade lap at Silverstone on Sunday

Martin

 Just changed diff oil yesterday and found the exact same thing, no noise from diff, car has only done 25,000 since new, this is its first diff oil change (i bought the car with 20,000 on the clock) very worrying !!!! how has your car been since you discovered these metal pieces ?

 Bad news fellas, you may have sustained serious diff dammage, see Robbie Roadster`s photos here:  http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/25752.aspxws 

Edit. link no longer works, look up `Rear Diff Problem` on the transmission forum, but make sure you are seated.....not good

Dr. Eunos 

or you read this thread, its becoming a common occurence, and then don't panic at all... !

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/14186.aspx

the recent problem RR had was where one of thise bits had caused further damage as I understand it, and the dif was noisy and there was clearly a problem with it. 

However, if you have got them out via the drain plug, then they can't cause that problem can they, and if all appears to be working ok, then its not a major disaster at all....

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/p/25752/177156.aspx#177156

 Hi Martin, not quite sure I can agree with you on this. There is clearly a design fault on this kind of diff.

There are only 4 of these tabs on each half of the LSD mechanism, most likely the two in the photograph will have snapped off from the same half which means the LSD element of the differential now only has 50% of its original strength in operation and in all probability will ultimately shear the other two - the resulting shrapnel is likely to end-up jetting jammed between the teeth on the crown-wheel and  pinion or the smaller differential gears....

Whichever way you look at it its a fairly serious situation, especially if it causes the rear wheels to lock half way around a bend

I would advise owners with this type of diff to have the diff drain plug taken out and if any of these tabs are attached to write to Mazda UK , this is very much a potentially serious defect.

Dr. Eunos

yep, don't deny there appears to be a fault and if you read the other thread I did raise the issue of this possibly becoming a latent defect claim situation, if it happened to my 5 then I would certainly seek some redress from Mazda.  Although I suspect that's been tried before as we are aware this is not an unknown issue now.

However, reading all I have on this, and speaking to people who have experienced it first hand it it would not appear necessary to panic over this... the bits break off, agreed, but apart from one case, as illustrated by the other photos, this has not caused any other issues that we here are aware of, and so far as I know that did not and possibly could not have caused the dif to lock up half way around a bend.  If that was the case then we would surely be into a much more serious safety recall situation as I think you may find the dif in question is fitted to an awful lot of MX-5s.

 Looking again at the photographs on Robbie Roadster`s post it is very clear to me that one of these tags getting caught inbetween the pinion and crown wheel could definately cause the diff to lock solid and cause loss of control in the vehicle, it should undoubtedly be classed as a major safety issue by both Mazda UK and the owners club, making light of this situation is going to look pretty daft when the inevitable accident happens to one of its members.

I suggest to you Martin we get an independant specialist transmission expert such as Mick Quaife or Mike Endean to give his view on the subject?

Dr. Eunos

 Martin you have PM.

Dr. Eunos

 Hi all,

Just had a major service on my mk 2.5  40000 miles done and the exact same piece of metal came out in the old diff oil too, the mechanic  had never seen this before and was very concerned but thanks to this site most of my  questions are answered, and i am a little relieved to hear that i am not alone.

My only thoughts are, has anyone ever found these bits  and then subsiquently had any problems with their diff, as all i have read is people who are still going strong with no issues so far.  I also wonder how long this piece of metal has sat in the bottom of the diff as it could have happened when the car was new  7 years ago or any time inbetween, as the service states a 54000 k or 6 year sevice involves the diff oil being changed, how would anyone know when it became detatched, and how many people are driving around with another six years to go before their next diff oil change  which will reveal pieces of metal in theirs, and what about those where the piece of metal didnt come out in the oil change so is still inside the diff how would they know, possibly could be loads?

What i am thinking is Mazda have obviously heard of this issue, but not admitting to it being a fault, as the people i spoke to said they had never come across it before, whatever.Surely they would do a recall if it were a danger and or who is to say that a main dealer would not tell the customer that it had happened to their car during a diff oil change, so is it really an issue at all? i would love to think not but am sure someone out there knows better.

P.S i have already read all the posts concerning this issue, just wondering if anyone has anything more to say about it as im now going to be a very uncomfortable mx5 owner, with a not so perfect car now,waiting for (hopefully not) the inevitable.

Thanks in anticipation of all positive responses (i wish).

Mark

 Before initiating a recall, manufacturers will apply a `formula` based on the liklihood of injury in an accident caused by a manufacturing defect, the number of cars in the field and the average cost of an out of court settlement, if the costs are not more than the cost of a recall, they won`t do one...

There is now a weakness of at least 25% in one half of your LSD mechanism, the chances of another one or two or three of these hardened metal tabs snapping off is now increased due to only 3 doing the designed duty of 4.....

If one of these pieces comes off again and jams between the main gears of your differential, definately your diff will be wrecked, possibly if you are going around a wet corner it could have the same effect as jamming your hand brake on, ie. spin off the road backwards, hopefuly not into the path of an HGV coming the other way.

I cannot stress enough how uncomfortable I would be knowing this could potentially happen, and advise you to write to Mazda UK, copy it to Mazda in Hiroshima and send another copy all with photos and vehicle vin no. to VOSA here in the UK.

Mazda seem to need forcing into action over this diff problem

Dr. Eunos

Had this on my 2004 Sport, done slightly more miles, but the diff was shot. It all started with a heavy rumbling from the rear diff, which got louder. Turns out on mine, the tabs had found there way between the crown and pinion gears and had caused bits to break off which resulted in the rumbling. Had to replace the diff on mine, but I managed to pick up another used diff.

 Ok we will see in the fullness of time, I really do not want anyone to be hurt in an accident resulting from this very obvious design/manufacturing defect. My concern is definately for the safety (and pocket) of the MX5OC members, quite what your own motive is I`m really not too sure? Trying to be a `smartypants` is certainly one of them but unfortunately for yourself , it isn`t working, not on this thread or any other or in your un-solicited email to myself recently...(Edit: the previous post to this reply was removed by its author `Jimbobsquarepants` presumably because he had `Trolled` on a serious subject.)

Hushing this problem up and brushing it under the carpet is not in the interests of our members

Dr. Eunos

 Here here Dr Eunos